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Poster: Fireball Steve Zodiac Date: Jul 17, 2009 8:48pm
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Just Checking...

forgive me for getting pulled in. When I was growing up I had the pleasure of working in the A/V sqauds at schools I attended. In 4th grade I was taught to setup and run the school projectors because I ahd expressed an interest. Later in high school we had the student film catalogs from about 30 countries to go through and our supervising faculty member basically said, get whatever you want our budget is about 500 times larger than we could ever spend.

As the years went on and I saw the advent of film loops and then videotape come into use I started thinking the old film libraries, both school oriented like I had exposure to, and librarties commercial TV stations might also subscribe to, were going to suffer and go obsolete. And whomever picked up those libraries would have a great thing.

Enter Mr. Prelinger and the rest of you here at IA.

My question goes to ownership of such stocks. I think if anything came from the educational world, it probably was royalty free when it was originally purchased so I imagine many of those are okay to boradcast and even go commercial with. Am I looney thinking that way?

Then there are the commercial libraries that TV stations use to have to go to, I am not very familiar with them but indies had syndicated shows they could acquire on a permanent basis. If another party acquires those "films" what's the status of the license there? Not ttransferable as probably was pre-agreed?

How about promotional records from record comapnies stamped for promo use only?

And what about out of print items?

And last, a friend of the family had their own film vault, air conditioned and each film in its own set of cans. We set up an old B&H 16 mm projector to watch a Cary Grant film. I couldn't tell you where the film came from but have to believe it was a commercial, over the counter purchase. Could it have been an original print and how to know such? And what rights does one have with an original print?

Thanks for bringing me up to speed.

Any chance we might see Mark of the Devil? Complete with it's barf bag came with each theatre ticket trailer?

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Poster: Video-Cellar Date: Jul 18, 2009 12:29am
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Just Checking...

I am not an expert on education films. I do know about the studio pictures. I'll try to answer some of your questions.

In terms of ownership of prints. Essentially, copyright extends only to intellectual property contained in a film print. The film print as a physical object is not protected by copyright, which rests only in the images and sounds (and underlying literary, artistic or musical content) contained on the film print. The physical film print is a form of property, which in law is called "chattel".

In the days before video, film prints were widely available from companies like "Castle Films", "Blackhawk Films", "Janus Films", "JEF Films", etc. These companies handled a catalogue of studio and independent pictures, copyright and public domain films on 8mm and 16mm formats. These films were available for sale from some libraries and rental from others.

Cinema release (35mm, 70mm etc) prints were rarely made available to the general public. It is all but impossible to establish title on a release print. Anyone who receieved a print (cinema owner, star of the film) usually had some restrictions or limited title on their use of the film.

There was also a vibrant film bootlegging industry around. Because of this it is difficult to establish legality of any copy unless its source is clearly established. "Blackhawk" and "Castle Films" prints often have unique title cards which aid in establishing thier authenticity. See below attachment for an example.

Only prints of movies which are in the public domain can be exploited commercially in the sense of releasing it on video, showing it on TV or to a paying audience. However, any film print were clear legal title can be established is free to be resold or traded. But in selling it, like reselling a dvd or video, no intellectual property rights are included or transferred.

Promotional videos and records and sometimes close-out/deleted/damaged stock have often been distributed without a royalty being paid. In some jurisdictions there is no right of resale on items reported as promotional, damaged or discarded stock. Resale, in some cases, is considered to be as serious as sale of stolen goods.

Attachment: Blackhawk_1.jpg

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Poster: jonc Date: Jul 18, 2009 11:23am
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Just Checking...

Video-Cellar, what do you think of this?

http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=254544